The Why and How of Intergenerational Advice

Zurich presents the advice opportunities for financial planning.

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Thank you for joining us today and I’ll now hand you over to David from Zurich.

Thanks, most of you guys would have met me at some stage or have stopped into the office. Zurich has a lot of work around estate planning and a good thing about some today’s presentation is that we’re not going to talk about product at all. We’re just going to talk about essentially the opportunity. Everyone knows the opportunity, which is available through estate planning and intergenerational advice. It’s just really hard to get into it.

It’s also hard to know what the process is going to be and how to get actually into it. So there’s a bit of setting the theme and then we are going to talk about a few things what Zurich has done. We’ve actually got some really good take outs and actual tools that you can use in your business which we can give you, which are all free, which you can actually use with your client and also with your referral partners which is probably the big value of today so get in touch with me and we can email them out the links or even better I can come and have a chat with about it.

There are many presentations around this and a lot of the providers out there are having chit chats about this. Some very technical. Zurich really plays it around on the psychology of the research that we’ve done. We’ve got a lot of research over the years. If you have ever heard our head of technical Andy Marshall speak, he’s really big on the psychology and sitting in practices and because we’ve been part of the Advice of the year and Practice of the Year for so many years we’ve been able to sit in these practices and see how they do it and come out with some of these ideas.

There is really good advice as well by giving out tools which is what we’re going to talk about but I’m going to provide you with some basic talk about stats and changing demographics and all sorts of bits and pieces like that. There are a few images to illustrate the exact components in the generation with large offer that can actually deliver results.

Ok, so that’s what hopefully the tools that we are going to give you at the end of this will help you get that. Now I’m just going to the next slide. Zurich’s presentation what Zurich all about and some of the expertise we have in the background. Here is the result of years and years of research, Ten years of research, into our presentation and also what we’re all about. We’ve also 78 advice businesses that were initially trying to get into it. So how are they going to get into it, how’s it going to unify their clients and how do to get into and attack into multiple generations of clients so to ensure that their business has longevity?.

We’re all seeing the baby boomers coming through. Now there’s an opportunity, but there’s also a threat and how do you transfer yourself across to look at those clients on both sides. So I actually sat in over the years and watched the successes and the challenges. So now a lot of the first successesful business has been done essentially by default. So essentially trial and error but over time they develop processes and you implement these processes and then replicate businesses out there that have a system in place and they’re able to replicate it into something that actually works and that’s what it’s all about.

So what we’ve done is really mapped out some of the most successful processes that were able to package key elements. We’ve got a workbook that we can give out of the end of this presentation so I can email it out to the head office there. The impact of these processes have, in this little booklet you can write it in and show some examples of families and businesses and certain age brackets and you can actually write in it and do your own structure and trying to establish some sort of system. The impact of these processes you can have in your business can actually be quite powerful because there’s a lot of people ask “how do you do it?”. So hopefully the workbook that we will hand out at the end and also that the tools we got can get you on the road to thinking about it, to tap into those clients, get them to you because everyone here knows how to talk, we’re all people, people that’s why we’re in this industry. But how do you get them?. That’s the scariest part from a median point of view. If you want to go out and advise, the challenges is to get your clients from hopefully someone can help you.

Ok, we have an example. Andy pulled up an example for us of a principle firm with a junior advisor and administrator with clients $50 million under advice and $1473,000 in revenue. So they launched the family offer trying to tap into this based around the issues facing families. So the service they provided was around insurances, what we all do and especially up here in Brisbane mortgages, education funding and estate planning. So the success after that was new revenue of $450,000, from going out of this sort of these are your clients an additional ongoing a $445,000. Initial additional clients and client files were falling off and the value of the business were not substantially. So what’s critical here with the example is that this is a business that they refer to as the trusted advisor. You may have seen or some of you might even read the book, there’s a there’s a book called a Trusted Advisor, which I can send you a link to it. It’s written by David Mason. So it’s sort of key to what this presentation is all about and key to staying relevant to changing family dynamics. I suppose when it comes to families and a lot of this is a business elements of estate planning but also the family element as well. So we’re talking about divorced, single-parent families to two incomes.

So then you’ve got the current situation in Australia. All the parents out there know the geographic dispersion of family members, kids in the UK and America and in the likelihood in your older years when we go on and we live alone later in life. So this was one of different conversations you can have and if you can tap into the different family values you become the trusted advisor. So this presentation really addresses the why of intergenerational advice and why it has not worked. So essentially that is what has been a value, so what has been difficult now to try and have a believable proposition to your clients which is not consistent, repeatable and sustainable, so a lot of people have fails around intergenerational advice.

So if you look at this slide here in the presentation, everyone knows about the baby’s boomers turning 65 and we certainly know a lot of them are working through. You can expect them essentially to work for another 15 or 18 years on average. Everyone knows the doctors and the business people who out there. People are younger these days, people are healthier, people enjoy working. They’re going to retire later in life than previous generations. There’s a different attitude as well from their parent’s generation. Affluent burners expect to remain healthy. If we all remember as kids a sixty-year-old was old, but now not. They’re still working and they’re fit and healthy and still at the peak of their careers in a lot of circumstances or traveling and doing all sorts of bits and pieces. So there’s a difference at the moment to where it was and going forward where their actions are going to be transferred.

So the boomer generation are also expected to spend some of their wealth so that’s a progression theory to an accumulation theory and the implications of essentially the life expectancy and different attitudes towards retirement, which means us as the provider and you guys as advisors have to know that the reality towards inheritance and many are not going to get theirs. Therefore, in some such circumstances they’re actually starting off early and spending it.

So the challenge and opportunity is that the baby boomer clients may not actually get any inheritance. The are living longer, they’re spending it longer, need it for longer. They’re actually giving it away a lot to their kids and grandkids, so by the time it’s expected to come to you, you may not get it and that’s a challenge for advice out there now, but also an opportunity as well. Can you be part of that younger generations and that means tapping into them?. When you have those older clients, they’ve been a client for life. But do you know where is the trail of money going?, where is the inheritance going?. So there’s a need for age care expertise and intergenerational pathways. Where is the money going and longevity strategies superannuation and advising clients who may continue well into retirement?. There is almost a skipping of generation, so people think about distributing their wealth differently these days. There’s not so much of the space where you get to retirement and close to the end of your life and you inherit that big chunk. Even I got some of my inheritance early to be able to get into the mortgage market at the moment. People are helping out their kids. People are selling down some of their business and their partnerships to pass off to enjoy their retirement or help their kids and their grandkids through school.

So we’re not getting that situation where there is that big lump sum coming through and depending on the needs of the children or grandchildren boomers are making gift of assets while they’re alive and that is an attitudinal shift. So they are gifting assets away while they’re alive to enjoy it and also have an influence over it. It is their money and like have an influence over what they do. They’re also leaving lumps sum requests to charity, institutions and different places which are really important to them.

So the challenge and the opportunity? So do you know the family well enough? Do you know where the money’s going to get?. So the challenge really is linking in with the family base, to get access to the family unit. So the value is going to move. There is going to be a shift of monetary values. If it’s a death that’s actually fine, it’s all about estate planning as well. But the challenge is that it’s moving early. You can gift it across and you know where it’s going. Do you have that relationship with the kids, with the grandkids, with the in laws? There’s also complex estate planning requirements and beneficiary meetings. It’s all about trying to link in with those clients. If you are trying to get access to this type of business we’ve actually got a process map that can help you do it which is able to not only have a chat with who has the money, and is your client anyway and you have the relationship. But if you can connect with the younger generation through the beneficiary meetings you then will know where the money’s going to pass to and you can develop that relationship and essentially safeguard your business along the long term.

For those who have a really strong relationship with their financial advisors and seem to be really comfortable with the advisor late model. We seem to be losing that little bit with the younger generation, so the use of beneficiary meetings and the use of estate planning in general which is the conversation over the long term. So looking after the client’s money and where it’s going to pass off to. So it really creates a massive shift in the relationship from just having it purely with your current client to the future of your business, in the future of the family going forward.

We’ve got a few tools that can help you do that as well. We’re also seeing with the younger generation not a massive uptake or relationship with financial advisors. There is a slow push to online abilities, not so much a slow push to Robo advice. They still need that connections with advisors, but they’re going to the internet first and they’re going online first and they’re looking to trying to educate themselves to a certain extent which creates the need for us to create tools which are electronic digitized online which are advice based at be able to connect with your clients as well and the younger clients and make them more relevant to you and so you can create a compelling intergenerational top model.

So really if you run through the changing family characteristics that we have at the moment. So you know all the you know 5.1 million families in Australia 85 percent are couple families but 14 percent are one-parent families. So family with children of any age, about 3.5 million of them, make up 59 percent of all families. Of all families with children of any age 78 percent had dependent children of less than 15 years or full time dependent students. Both parents are employed in sixty-three percent or 2.2 million couple families with current resident dependent children. The majority of one parent families with co resident children 0-17 years were lone mother families. So what we’re seeing is that the family is under increasing time pressure and financial pressure. Some of the things can help you and I’ve got to talk about in the next slide go through is that tired, poor, stressed parents I was talking about in the last slide. So there’s a lot of one-parent families coming through a lot of issues with cash flow, debt recycling, ease of processes. What people are after are insurances and superannuation and from a product provider, a change in where insurance is getting funded from. Superannuation funding is the biggest area, which means that people are struggling with cash flow, people need it. There is still need for insurance to look after this generation, but they are doing it a different way. They are also connecting with lawyers and professionals and getting divorce and specific advice.

We need a new way to play. Much of the messaging and certain value propositions in wealth management is based on the assumption that different generations have similar experiences so we are supposed to customise that, so who’s got the most money and where’s the way the money going to be.

The assumption still seems to be that the client will graduate and value propositions will keep well. There is the imperatives with different attitudes towards investing. They expect transparency, they want to see exactly what they’re doing, they want online ability. They wanted to view things and see what’s going on. They want control as well. They readily share information. We’re talking about social media here. So kids talk about referrals. So people talk about we how it a different way now through social media and forums. But they’re not tired of traditional services and that is kind of a challenge that we’ve got.

I’ve done this slide before in in a presentation so if you guys were here the last two days this is about how changing our perceptions around what we think customers are after and what the consumer perceptions are. So if you look at the right side of the screen, these are the advisor perceptions or predictions about when we think that financial planning is important and I’m probably exactly in this side of it as well. So if I’m going to have a target client or when is it mostly likely this customer is going to talk to me it’s most likely be in the forties. So forty-eight percent of advisors and a lot of people just like me believe that that’s when it’s going to be and is probably when we started thinking about it in the most importance.

When I throw this out there who do it to the crowd at the PD day half the crowd agreed, but there were quite a few different people in the crowd which actually said no and actually agreed with the sentiment to it to the left hand side. So when we did our research and our surveys in regard to this presentation in previous presentations the consumer actually says we should really start thinking about financial planning in their twenties. So we had a real mix with the old schooler like me, but there were some advisers in the crowd in the audience that were dealing with the younger groups and having major success with customers and getting engagement with their clients in their twenties. A lot of it was with the guys that were very IT savvy, social media savvy in regards to what they put on Facebook and Linkedin and Twitter and they’re actually getting an occasion with their clients.

So it’s sort of an eye opener really to have a think outside the box. So we’re talking about intergenerational advice estate planning, where’s the money going to pass on to? If we’re going to be successful at that it’s almost like a psychological dimensional shift to where we currently are, especially for myself. Do we really get out of the people in there in their forties and beyond, but that’s not the right way? You need to have to change your mindset to be aware that you will see a big opportunity. Perhaps we can go younger. So start thinking about the younger clients and engage with them because that is essentially the future business.

So the how? So this is what I like about the presentation. How do you do it? How do capture the client? So how do you get them through? How you capture the relevant data? How do you get the clients to you? Especially if you’re engaging, as we had in the last slide, these clients in their twenties now they want to use digitized data, they want to use websites and don’t want to engage with you at the moment face-to-face but will eventually. We can provide you some something that can do that and how do you engage with the beneficiary meetings to see them.

How to get in front of these guys and have the conversations which is what you need? Estate planning opportunities to learn about the client. Through this is really just really a mockup of what you’re going to do. There’s a conversation at the start. So the APDT is the estate planning tool that I’ve got to talk about. So it comes out of the report. It’s really just a fact-finding tool that’s pretty cool, which I can give to you guys and comes out the report which you can highlight to your clients. You guys can come up with an estate plan, which is what you guys do. So you will have the information. You’ll have a soft conversation and the tool I will give to you has digital access and you have that conversation and highlight the areas you need to talk about and find the holes.

You can give advice and get some work, that’s what you’re really after. You want to get some work and do your job and then you can talk about what you do, what is your expertise, about estate planning and looking at the client now and beyond and into the next generations. This process is obviously about getting the beneficiaries involved. In having conversations about them to get them involved. They could be potential clients as well.

Alright so this is the tool I have been talking about. So anyone who’s engaged with Zurich in the past or had this conversation with me in the past you might have already seen it. You might already used it. This is a free tool that we can give out to you. If there’s any interest, please come and speak to us and we’ll send you the link which can be given out to you. So what Zurich’s after and what we really want to specialise in is different intergenerational business. A lot of that is licensed EPD, but with Zurich they are also good at helping clients and helping advisors and get those clients because we’ve all got a similar product.

How do you get those clients delivered to you? This is something that can help you. It’s not labeled Zurich. It’s actually a tool that we bought a couple hundred licenses off from an external business but you wanted to give it out to you guys who specialise in estate planning. So this is a few snapshots of the actual screen and you have a link which you can email that to your database, you can stick it on your website, you can embed it, you can put it on your tablet of choice and do it face-to-face with the client.

It’s all touch screen so essentially for the guys have been around. It’s a digitized fact finder to engage clients electronically and quickly and quicker for you. It looks really good and get some basic information out for you. As you can see it runs through a whole series of streams about basic questions – are you employed, self-employed, married, single and it cascades out so it asks if you have grandchildren and in this example when you press the grandchildren it opens up all sorts of questions. If you click no to everything you probably get through it in two minutes, but that’s not going to happen. If you click the yes then it cascades out to the more information, getting more and more data to you to access your clients. It even goes down to the detail of do you have a will? do your beneficiaries know where that will is hidden?

What it doesn’t go into detail in which is your deal is that it doesn’t give advice. So it’s really just an information gatherer in a really interesting and engaging way for your client and looks professional make sure you guys look professional as well. So it doesn’t give advice, it doesn’t ask exact figures and it doesn’t calculate where you’re going to need some an insurance. It’s purely an opportunity to engage in that first step, to find the opportunity and to open your clients mind up to say “yes we really need to talk about certain situations.” As you work through the tabs it goes about if you have business clients which are potentially know some massive opportunities. It will ask you how many business owners are there? what’s the business structure? do you have insurance? Basic questions like that which will cascade out. So the opportunity there for you to talk about do they have family, have a partnership agreement? So there’s an opportunity for you to have the conversation later. With the estate planning at the end it comes up and says test advisor there, but you’ll once you register you’ll have your name there. So will say Joe Blogs Services or whatever. Your client will push the button on the right-hand corner and it will say “do you want to access the plan?” with their name, their email address and they press access the plan. They get sent this and you get a copy as well.

So it’s not branded by any insurance company. It looks really good looks, really professional, no product portion whatsoever. It’s purely just a conversational, nice report on their current estate planning situation. It makes you look professional and is more like a value added tool. So instead of pushing insurance, you’re looking for the opportunity to do be the facilitator of an estate plan. Because with Estate planning it is more than that because you can go out by retirement, you could lose interest, you could just wander off and do something else. You can have conversation through the use of this report but obviously the opportunity money wise or financial advice wise is the insurance commissions or fees or whatever you want to do it.

The second page of the report comes out with a little snapshot. It comes up with a nice front page and boom you go to the next page and there’s a little snapshot of the report of all 50 or 60 questions that you asked. So you see exactly where you fit in. Andy Marshall’s done for himself – self-employed, married, children, Super.

In all the questions that is are underneath it comes out with an index of where you’re sitting regarding Estate planning situation. Essentially it’s a call to arms or a call to action. So you’ll be sent this and the client will be sent this and it will open on the second page. You can see in general what come up and it’s sort of almost like a psychological play to a certain extent. It doesn’t lie, it doesn’t make it worse. You could be a hundred, but the majority of us how many people have a will? There’s a massive gap and that’s really going to bring your score down. That’s the opportunity of the snapshot to chat, have a look, pick up the phone and to the client “say well done, I continued on the report, that’s really good, you’re in a good position but I think you should come in for a chat, there are some areas needed to talk to.”

So it’s an opportunity to get involved. The successful practices that I’ve seen using this are using this in a review, as an add-on. You can do whatever you do in your reviews, every year, every six months. This is something to add to and if you go and buy this directly for your business it may cost you $700 or $800 per year. We will give it to you for free as we engage with Madison, but it is a valuable proposition. So you’re investing your time, you invest in your business and your client so it’s something of value you can offer to your client which is really professional.

You can you can give it to your accountants as well or try and engage with them and these are some of the success areas that I’ve seen. So accountants essentially have the keys to the castle. A lot of them are getting involved in this area, have aging clients or hand clients off to you. Again, coming back to process. So there are businesses that are able to create a special process. These sort of ideas for some of the things that they can do, if you can get something like this, to engage and to also to implement it into an accounting practice. This is where you going to get some leads. If you’re looking to get leads on estate planning. You can implement this. There is no advice in it, it just looks good. It looks good and it is something of value and every time I see a client or a targeted bunch of clients that you agree to go after. You can do this for 15 minutes, with the report being sent to you. There’s got to be a compelling opportunity there for you which makes you look professional, the accountant looks professional and provide something to your client. It looks professional and hopefully with the index at the bottom it will lead leads across to you.

From the children’s point of view this is an example that that it isn’t about advice, it doesn’t give advice. All it is a digital fact finder. So these are two questions that have been asked, you must’ve entered at some stage you’re not sure that you have an enduring power of attorney. It doesn’t give you a lecture about why should have an enduring power of attorney. It just says what it is, what they do and why might be nice to have one.

So the main one to look at would be “I don’t have a will”. It doesn’t lecture about not having a will or telling you have to. It just say what a will is this and it’s nice to have one for these reasons. It’s written in easy language, it’s really easy English to read and your customers can read through it and it opens up their mind and their conversations and what their after. We have covered this, how to use effectively. Annual reviews, so implement it, something new. So here, for the risk advisors this is something for you to bring on board. For the guys who are doing the whole kit and caboodle with investments and bits and pieces, as always some investments are hard to talk about.

If you’re looking to get involved in new generations, if you have an older bulk you can you look to get into new generations this is a great idea. So it’s free, we can give to you and you can engage with your older generation clients to see where they’re sitting. There may not be an opportunity insurance wise there which is what I’m about, but the estate planning conversation is so much more. We’re looking to get your client to that end game and follow where the money goes. But also you guys in the business one opportunity here about how do you get access to the clients and that can do it for you.

So outcomes of it is qualitative and quantitative. So you know the quality side of it is just really deeper insights. So something new. Something that can delve into your client that you haven’t had discussions about before. It’s a huge area estate planning area. So you’ve sorted out their insurances, you’ve got their investment coming along nicely. Something new to add depth to the conversation, to lead you to being a trusted advisor. So you’re trying to get the customer to the end game. So this is a way to do it and also look after the generations going forward. Adding to that, psychology of being a trusted advisor, that they trust you and that you’re going to look at those clients going forward.

On the quantitative side of it you’re looking at your business so it’s got to be an opportunity to increase your business. So if you can implement this into a process, into lead generators, accountants or even just your own book there’s got to be leads coming from it and referrals from your existing client base. So if you can wow them or if you can open their eyes to potentially what they what they need to talk about. The referrals will come through and that’s the key, especially the moment we’re coming in to post lift world if and when it comes through but who knows when. How do you get those new clients, those chunky clients or new clients this is something that can help you find those clients out of an existing client base? So if you don’t have that referral partner but you got a huge book or a good book this is something that can try and leverage those conversations and relationships to try to get you more clients organically.

So it can be used to establish new referral partnership so if you’re out there hunting down your accountants and referrals this is something you can take through. Its value like I said is $700 or $800 to buy this. You can say “look at this what I can give to your clients”, there’s no advice but it looks good and you’re actually doing something right in regards to getting your client going forward. As an advisor this is what I can provide you plus the other stuff. Most advisors are talking about it so it’s a string to your bow to go and talk to clients about these sort of things going forward to deliver you more leads if that’s what you’re after and increase practice margin and revenue.

So if leads are not going to come in for the next year you’ve got a huge opportunity now for you get after it. So hit your practices now, hit your partners now, your existing book now to try and find those opportunities while commissions are what they are. But going forward as well, this is an ongoing tool which can use into the future. So what is Zurich doing about it? So insurance seems to be going to commoditised but everyone’s looking at the rating houses where they push their business and stuff like that. So really the insurers go to distinguish themselves going forward or ones that can help you do business. Zurich’s great and has a great product. Other insurers have a great product as well, whether we differentiate ourselves.

Zurich blueprint which is one of the major plans going forward is about efficiencies. So how do we make it easier for you? for your admin, your website? We’ve got tools such as this and other one I’m going to talk to you about a bit to help you get clients. So we can save time, save money in your business, getting new clients, that’s going to be a great partnership so if we’re all reasonably standardised with regards to the product. So who is the difference when it comes to helping deliver to clients and we’re trying to do that.

So further technology to help you get involved with clients and younger clients especially on digital side we’ve got an app called Flipchart. You can have this free, we can send the links out. This is another way of engaging with your younger clients which I mentioned at the start of the presentation are looking to engage to deal with advice, but they want to do it digitally, they want to do it via social media, they want to do on their own first ok and see what it’s all about. It’s just a different way of thinking and different way to try and engage with clients if that’s what they’re after.

Part of the app is about values. So finding what’s important to your customers. It’s not pitching insurance here. It’s finding what’s really important. This idea came from one of the advisors a couple years ago and this is what she did. So she had 50 cards which were important to her and would lay them down on the table and tell the client to pick the top five or ten what you’re important to them and let’s discuss it. So it enables you, if you’ve got that relationship with your existing clients and you’re looking to try to move intergenerational to the younger clients to longevity your business. This is a way to engage those clients. If you wanted it’s available, we can give it to you. So I can touch the screen and it comes up with the top five and it’s might be growth, it might be risk. We’re talking young kids here, autonomy, ledger. That’s probably what young kids would say right now. So it enables you to pitch what you’re all about. You’ve got to process what floats their boat. So it’s about risk and it’s about excitement and wealth. They want to have plenty of money. I’ll pitch my conversational pieces that younger client to match their values, but another chap like me I’m going to go stability, safety, about kids, that’s what I need, that’s what’s important to me.

The tool we have got as well is another fact finder. It’s called Wealth Index and it’s available so you can email the link out to your clients. It’s essentially a digitized fact finder, something we’ve made in-house. You can put your own picture on it, can put all your own details in there, your own email address and you can sit it on your laptop. You can actually put on as many laptops as you want. You can feed it out by social media. So you can get the survey link at the top, you can stick that across and sit on your Twitter, Facebook, Linkedin, on your website. Some people put it on the email filter so customers can click on it and there’s a basic fact finder in there, which is the digitized way to get information. A few little snapshots of what it looks like. So asset protection, estate planning. They’re basic questions. So all these again, like the estate planner, is giving you a feel for it and giving you the basic information for you guys to then go and do your job.

So if you do pre meetings, it’s like a pre-meeting tool to send us out the clients. It will come back with a basic yes, no, unsure and you’ll have an indication of what that client is all about before they come to you. This one will take two or three minutes. We will get yes, no, unsure, whatever they’re concerned about, they have a will, have superannuation funds, have you been reviewed in the last year? Again it comes up with the index. Andy’s put his photo up there and all the questions. He obviously rigged this one but it could be one hundred, could the eighty, could be sixty. It’s come up with nineteen percent in regard to this and it does show you answers at the bottom and this is what you’ll get emailed. So the customers will see this, you’ll also see it as well. It’s a tool for you guys to access your client, to say right this is what I’ve got for you. So you can get the information off them. Information wise, you’ll be able to see this is what they’ve got, haven’t got, what they’re unsure about. That’s going to give you the ability to talk about what you do. It’s going to get you to work, a little bit more informed, to have a chat a little higher level than what you would have had.

An initial conversation when they come in. Psychologically as well, similar to the estate planner with the index no one likes to lose, no one likes to be all red. Everyone likes to be in a good position and nineteen percent in this they might say “I really need to speak to my financial advisor” and hopefully that will deliver clients across to you and then you can do your thing.

That’s the end of the presentation, but there’s a real opportunity out there for you if you’re looking for it. These tools you use within your businesses certainly engage with us. We’re happy to come out and chat to you. If you are interstate, we have interstate mediums to come and chat to you. There is a big opportunity in regard to intergenerational advice and estate planning. Hopefully these tools are some ideas, especially the estate planner, on the how. We all know the opportunities there. How to engage with the client? Hopefully you can get some value out of it and best of luck.

Thank you

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